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The Political Orphanage

Rutger Bregman: "Lord of the Flies" Got Things Wrong

The Political Orphanage

Andrew Heaton

Politics, Comedy, News

4.91000 Ratings

🗓️ 16 July 2020

⏱️ 83 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Rutger Bregman is the author of "Humankind: A Hopeful History," which refutes the central premise of Thomas Hobbes and countless pessimistic legislative agendas: that human beings are, deep down, selfish monsters. He joins Heaton to discuss how to build society for the majority of its cooperative people, instead of to counteract the few fringe sociopaths.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Hello and welcome to the political orphanage. I'm your host Andrew Heaton. Let's get thanky.

0:15.0

Chances are, when you were in high school you either read

0:18.0

or at least pretended to read Lord of the Flies.

0:28.0

In that Nobel Prize winning novel by William Golding, a group of British schoolboys are stranded on a Pacific Island.

0:31.0

When they realize no one is coming to the rescue,

0:33.7

they decide to build a village and govern themselves.

0:36.6

They nominate a level-headed kid named Ralph

0:38.4

to be their leader and decide that anyone who holds the conch-shell

0:41.6

will command the attentive silence of their democratic community.

0:45.6

And then promptly start to kill each other.

0:50.0

The children establish an overweight kid to be the butt of their jokes who they call Peggy,

0:54.0

and they increasingly become paranoid of a supposed beast who haunts the island,

1:00.0

to the point of letting their signal fire go out even as a ship passes with an eyesight,

1:04.7

because they're out beast hunting. A nascent alpha male named Jack forms his own competing tribe

1:10.4

which rapidly descends into barbarism.

1:13.1

They kill one child, capture two more and torture them, then paint their own faces and dance

1:17.4

naked before a rotting pig's head they've hung on a spear as an offering to the beast. Jack and his followers decide that the

1:24.4

conk is not the real source of power on the island, but Piggy's glasses used to light

1:28.5

fires. So they raid the other tribe and steal the spectacles. When Ralph and half-blind Peggy confront them,

1:34.9

Piggy holds the conch aloft to address his peers to exhort them, to remain sane and civilized.

1:42.1

And Jack hurls a boulder down at him, killing Piggy, and shattering the conk.

1:50.0

Ralph flees into the jungle as Jack and the savages hunt him, every intention of parading

...

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