This is CBSI on the world. I'm John Batchel. I welcome my colleague and friend, Craig Unger, the author, of a number of books,

write most recently, Den of Spies, about the October Surprise episode of 1980 and the election of Ronald Reagan over Jimmy Carter. But right now we're speaking

of an earlier book that Craig published. It's great fun and enormously revelatory about a man

named Putin. The book is House of Trump, House of Putin. And Putin is a character in this drama.

It's a mob story, so there are elements of the American mob story, except for this is Russia,

following the fall of the Soviet Union.

Craig includes in his substack page where you can find this episode.

All of them are there, a photograph that is, to me, the story in itself of the rise of Vladimir Putin.

There's a photograph of the mayor of St. Petersburg, once called Leningrad, now called St. Petersburg, in 1993. The mayor is Mayor Anatoly Subchak. The deputy mayor of St. Petersburg is Vladimir Putin. And in the photograph, Subtac is

buttoning his coat, beautifully dressed, silver tie, very fashionable, and looking at someone who might be waving at him.

He looks pretty much like a Don, an Italian Don coming out of luncheon.

Behind him is a diminutive man with what you'd have to say, hair that's leaving him.

He's still blonde, but there's not much left. And he's in an ill-fitting three-piece suit.

He's got an expression of, what do I do next. He's carrying too many briefcases over his arms.

So he's carrying the boss's briefcases. That is Deputy Mayor of Vladimir Putin.

Craig, a very good evening to you. Congratulations for this photograph and for the story accompanying it.

This is the rise of Vladimir Putin. It has to be taken into account given how he's always in the news. He's in the

news within these hours announcing a ceasefire on May 9th during the victory parade. They hold

every year at Red Square for the victory in the Great Patriotic War. And he's announced a ceasefire

in Ukraine. So he's in the news again, waiting for Keith to respond.

But in 1993, he was, well, how do we describe him? An ambitious man, a clerk? How was he regarded

by Subtach, the boss? Good evening to you. Well, good evening to you. You know, I think what's interesting

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