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I'm Dorothy Wickendon, and on today's Politics and More podcast, David Remnick, the New Yorker's editor, talks with

Rikmini Kalamaki about her experiences covering ISIS and about the future of Islamic extremism.

Rukmini Kalamaki, who was born in totalitarian Romania and as a reporter for the New York Times,

is doing some of the bravest and most astonishing reporting we have on ISIS and other terror groups.

I learned in Mali in West Africa where I was based for almost eight years that when an al-Qaeda linked group or a jihadist group takes over an area, your initial reaction is, well, I can't go there.

You know, and so you kind of put down your hands and go, I can't cover this. And in fact,

I learned from covering Mali that you can go to the line of control, to the last safe place

before their territory starts. And in that area, there's often refugees that are coming across.

There's traders that are going back and forth.

And there's survivors of whatever atrocities they're carrying out that are making it into the safe area.

The catalog of horror, as Rukmini has written about, is long, and the personal risk she takes is terrifying.

But a lot of what she brings to the world comes from social media, where she's getting

much closer to jihadists than any of us want to be.

...