Ross Douthat Has Been ‘Radicalized a Little Bit, Too’

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 27 July 2021

⏱️ 68 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Am I too panicked about the future of American democracy? My colleague Ross Douthat thinks so. He points to research suggesting that voter ID laws and absentee voting have modest effects on elections and the reality that Republican state officials already have tremendous power to alter election outcomes — powers they did not use in the aftermath of 2020 and show few signs of preparing to use now. So I invited Ross on the show to hash it out: Am I too alarmed, or is he too chill? We also talk about his trio of recent columns trying to find a middle ground in the fight over how America understands, and teaches, it’s own history; as well as how his own medical struggles with treatment-resistant Lyme disease have shaped how he’s understood and covered the coronavirus. Mentioned: "Can Anything End the Voting Wars?" by Ross Douthat Insecure Majorities: Congress and the Perpetual Campaign by Frances Lee "What Progressives Want, and What Conservatives Are Fighting" by Ross Douthat "The Excesses of Antiracist Education" by Ross Douthat "Why a Patriotic Education Can Be Valuable" by Ross Douthat "Why the Lab Leak Theory Matters" by Ross Douthat "Use of Alternative Medicine for Cancer and Its Impact on Survival" by Skyler B. Johnson, Henry S. Park, Cary P. Gross and James B. Yu The Deep Places: A Memoir of Illness and Recovery by Ross Douthat "The War That Made Our World" by Ross Douthat Book recommendations: Crucible of War: The Seven Years' War and the Fate of Empire in British North America, 1754-1766 by Fred Anderson Champlain's Dream by David Hackett Fischer Mom Genes: Inside the New Science of Our Ancient Maternal Instinct by Abigail Tucker You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld, audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin.

Transcript

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0:00.0	I'm Ezra Klein and this is the Ezra Klein Show.
0:19.8	So if you've been listening to the show, you know I'm a little worried about their public
0:23.8	party's turn against democracy.
0:26.3	But look, maybe I'm being an alarmist, there's a case for that.
0:30.4	If you dig into the research, whatever you think of voter ID laws morally, they don't seem
0:35.4	to have a huge effect on outcomes.
0:37.3	These various laws or publicans are passing to politicize election administration, they
0:42.0	don't really need new laws to do that.
0:44.3	They have all kinds of powers that could be used or misused now.
0:48.4	So maybe it's all just for show.
0:49.8	Donald Trump, he's a waning force.
0:51.4	The guy doesn't even have a Twitter account anymore.
0:53.9	Because maybe the unique dangers he posed have passed.
0:58.6	This isn't my take exactly, but it's close to my colleague Ross Douthitz take.
1:03.8	He's had a series of columns arguing that people need to chill a little bit on the alarmism
1:07.8	around elections and democracy.
1:10.2	And I've known Ross a long time.
1:12.1	We were bloggers way back when and I respect him tremendously.
1:16.8	So I wanted to have him on the show to hash it out.
1:18.5	Am I being alarmist or is he being too chill?
1:22.2	We also talk about the fight over American history and how it is taught, which has been
1:26.6	a big theme of his column recently, and how getting treatment resistant Lyme disease
	...

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