Roger. Good to see you again. You too. Thanks for doing this. We have just a little bit

of background for our audience. Roger and I have known each other for coming up on

a decade. We're sitting at the University of Colorado, which by the way, my wife is an

alum and my daughter is as soon to be senior here at the University of Colorado. And for

the loyal listener, yes, we're involved. This is so rad to have the professor here. But

in all this is actually a very serious conversation. So that is goofy. That is as goofy as I will

get. But we've just been, uh, become buddies and I've talked to your class a couple times,

which I've really, really enjoyed. Um, it's always fun to, uh, by the way, my daughters

never asked me to come speak to her any of her classes. Um, but it's, it's, it's been

fun. It's been interesting. And, and you really become, uh, I think two things for me,

uh, uh, uh, a thought partner and also just a sounding board on, on a lot of issues. And

of course, you know, you spend a lot of time on, on, on many things that are edgy and controversial,

like climate change and like ethics and sport. Uh, so we've spent a lot of time talking

about the one thing that people probably think I don't spend a lot of time thinking or

talking about, which is ethics and sport, uh, primarily doping. Um, but, but, but we have

and I've always, uh, I like to think that I've always come to your class, uh, with an open

mind and, and an open book and, and, and just let it rip, right? That's the way I prefer.

Um, so, so here we are on, on, and of course, when this issue came up for me, and I'll give

a little bit of background also for our listener if they haven't tuned into some of the other

shows, uh, the issue of, uh, of, of, of trans and sport is, and if anybody is even remotely

paying attention, they are, uh, highly attuned to this. Um, it, it is everywhere. It's,

and it doesn't matter if you're, um, you know, what cable news channel you're watching

...