Welcome to Words Matter. I'm Elise Jordan along with Steve Schmidt. Our goal is to promote

objective reality. As a wise man once said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion,

not their own facts. Words have power, and words have consequences.

We are so excited to have here today with us Gabe Sherman, who is a vanity fair correspondent,

and he is the author of The New York Times bestseller, The Loudest Voice in the Room,

How the Brilliant Bambastic Roger Ails Built Fox News, and divided a country. So this

book came out in 2014. Yet you can learn a whole lot about why we are in the current era

of political drama from the reporting you did, and also your reporting process starting,

you know, I think you really started working on the book in around 2011. So you put so many years

into telling a story that was out there in the open, and people had spoken about

Roger Ails and what was going on with women at Fox News. But no one really had blown the

lid off of it. And so Gabe did that. Gabe blew the lid off the story. So we're so happy to have

you here today. Thanks for having me. Joining me today is our executive producer and my

sometime co-host Adam Levine. Adam also served in the White House for President George W. Bush.

He was also a senior producer at NBC News and began his career with the late great Daniel

Patrick Moynihan. And in the interest of full disclosure, I was one of the sources, one of the

many, many, many sources I got to know Gabe during the writing of this book. And in interest of

full disclosure, my husband works at Vanity Fair with Gabe. Now that we have that all that out,

at least go ahead. So this book, it's thick. You can read it on Kindle or listen. And it goes very

quickly because of the familiarity with the story and the players, but you really take the character

of Roger Ails and explain who he is. And I have always been fascinated with Roger Ails. He's just

such a genius at political messaging and politics and media. And so you kind of take us to the

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