Yes. So your book fell into my lap in about 15 years ago. I was in the Arizona

Department of Corrections for importing ecstasy serving a nine and a half

year sentence. I had a workout partner called Ironman, Marshall Arts Guy, and he

came in my cell one day, put this on my lap, and he said you've got to read

this. And I was reading about 10 different books on rotation because I was

reading all day long, and I get bored of one, move on to the other, move on to

the other, but every now and then there was one I had to stop my rotation, and

there was just one I could not put down, and yours was absolutely mesmerizing.

Are you aware that all of your books aband by the Arizona Department of

Corrections? I don't think all of them are banned. I think the 48 laws of power is

banned, and I think the strategies of war. I haven't heard that the other books

have been banned, but I'm aware that they're banned in Utah and Pennsylvania, but

you're the first person I've talked to who is one of the second person I've

talked to in the prison system who's actually can explain to me why the books

are so popular in prisons. I have an idea, but you can give me a better idea.

Okay, I would say various reasons then, and I imagine that the books you've

written since I was in prison, perhaps they are not banned, that's correct. So when

it comes to 48 laws of power then, I mean the dynamics in prison are the same as

the dynamics in high school. It's like people playing mind games, but in prison

it's taken to the deadly consequence level. I think it was Timothy Leary wrote, he

saw parallels in the business community, in the jail community, in the

studio community, etc. So when you've got people playing all these mind games on

...