I'm Hello and welcome to coding the gurus with me, the cognitive anthropologist, Chris Kavana and him,

the psychologist of some description slash statistician Matthew Bryan.

We are here today not doing a decoding or supplementary material.

We're doing one of the relatively rare interview slash discussions that we occasionally do.

And this one was at the suggestion of a listener to our podcast, Jay Waller,

who also is a listener to, or a reader, an interactor with the content of the guests that we have.

And it relates to the topic of sense making,

which has come up quite a lot on the podcast,

especially as of late.

And we are talking with Alexander Bainer,

who is currently the founder of Kynos,

and previously also involved with rebel wisdom, we had interactions.

Well, I had interactions with David Fuller.

Previously, I don't think I spoke to Alexander, but he kindly agreed to come on and talk to us about, you know,

maybe our perspective on sense-making criticisms

that we have of that approach and perhaps criticisms he might have of our approach or, yeah,

differences opinion. So thank you for agreeing to come on, Alexander.

Yeah, thanks for having me and thanks for doing sort of a right to reply as a journalist.

It makes me happy.

I think it's good.

And hopefully it gets us to sort of interesting, fruitful new intellectual territory together.

Yeah.

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