As kids, we all are taught. A tiger does not change his stripes. A leopard does not change his spots. So why would anybody think a Nazi would change his swastika or a Klansman would change his robin hood? Yes, a tiger and leopard cannot change their stripes and spots because they were born with those immutable

characteristics. That's who they are. But the Klansmen or Nazi is not born with that

robin hood or that swastika that is acquired, that is learned behavior. And what can be

learned can be unlearned.

Hey, everyone. It's Adam Grant. Welcome back to Rethinking, my podcast with Ted on the science of what makes us tick.

I'm an organizational psychologist, and I'm taking you inside the minds of fascinating people

to explore new thoughts and new ways of thinking.

The KKK is one of the tightest-knit tribes in America.

Once people join the white supremacist group, they're usually members for life.

But in the 1980s, they began losing members.

Since then, more than 200 people have renounced their affiliation

who all give credit to the same man, a black jazz musician named Daryl Davis.

For me, it wasn't courage, as much as it was curiosity. I want to see how these people think.

So rather than get furious, I got curious. I wrote about Daryl in my book, Think Again.

He's a master of talking people out of hate, and he has a closet

full of KKK robes and hoods from former members to prove it. Daryl's most recent book is called

The Clan Whisperer, and he's also a co-founder of the Pro Human Foundation. It's become his life's work

to show how people can change their deeply held beliefs about others, even those they profess to hate.

Like Jeff Scoop, Jeff spent more than 20 years leading and growing the largest neo-Nazi group

in America. After he met Darrell, he started questioning his ideology. The following year,

Jeff helped organize the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville and then abandoned the movement.

He was adrift until he got a call from Daryl, who helped change the trajectory of his life.

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