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The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria

Resilience Is a Skill — Raising Capable Kids in a Fragile World: Session 324 with Paulie Gavoni and Steve Ward

The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria

Matt Cicoria

Mental Health, Health & Fitness, Science, Social Sciences

4.8 • 662 Ratings

🗓️ 13 February 2026

⏱️ 81 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In Session 324, Dr. Paulie Gavoni and Steve Ward join me to discuss what resilience actually looks like from a behavior science perspective — and why many well-intentioned adult responses can unintentionally teach avoidance instead of persistence.

We center our conversation around their book, S.H.I.T. Happens: Building Resilient Children in a Fragile World, which reframes resilience not as a personality trait or motivational slogan, but as a set of learnable repertoires shaped by the environments adults design

We talk about:

  • Why resilience is a behavioral repertoire, not a mindset or personality trait
  • The hidden ways adult anxiety shapes children's learning environments
  • How overprotection and pressure both undermine skill development
  • Designing "successful struggle" so kids contact reinforcement for effort
  • Everyday moments — homework, sports, emotional setbacks — as resilience practice
  • The adult's role as guide, not rescuer or drill sergeant
  • Teaching recovery instead of avoidance
  • Scaling challenges to build confidence and persistence
  • Why discomfort is information, not danger

This discussion emphasizes practical decision-making: how small changes in adult behavior can create conditions where children learn to try again, persist longer, and experience the satisfaction of overcoming something difficult.

Whether you're a practitioner, educator, or parent, this episode highlights how resilience is built through repeated opportunities to struggle safely — and why those opportunities matter more than we often realize.

Resources mentioned:

Sponsor shoutouts

  • The School Behavioral Solutions for Special Educators & Behavior Analysts. The Behavior Toolbox Conference is a one-day, high-impact professional convening that brings together experienced practitioners and leaders from across education and behavior science to share what actually works in schools. It's taking place virtually through BehaviorLive on March 5th, 2026, and will be available on-demand for those who can't make it on the day of the event.
  • Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
  • CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. 
  • HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Hey, everyone, welcome to session 324 of the Behavioral Observations podcast.

0:05.0

In this episode, I sit down with multi-time guests and good friends of mine, Dr. Polly Gavoni and Steve Ward.

0:13.0

We talk about a simple truth that many adults can't have struggled to accept, that stress is part of life, and learning how to respond to it is a skill

0:22.3

that children can develop. We center our conversation around their book. Well, stuff happens

0:29.2

building resilient children in a fragile world. It's actually not stuff happens. It's the other

0:33.6

word. And we do talk about that word. So if you are listening in the car with

0:39.0

passengers with sensitive ears, let this be your content warning. We don't actually say

0:44.6

the word, but we certainly talk about it a lot. And, well, you'll understand once you listen to

0:49.6

the episode, but there's a reason behind it and they get into it in the course of our discussion.

0:55.9

So anyway, this book reframes resilience not as a personality traitor motivational slogan,

1:02.9

but as a set of learnable repertoires shaped by the environments that adults can influence.

1:10.0

So we explore why overprotection and quote-unquote toughening up, both of those missed the mark,

1:16.6

how avoidance accidentally gets reinforced in everyday parenting moments, and what it looks

1:21.3

like to guide children through productive struggle.

1:24.9

This episode is a practical behavior science-grounded discussion about helping kids

1:29.0

build persistence, recovery skills, and real confidence, not by eliminating discomfort, but by

1:35.4

designing conditions where effort leads to success. If you work with children, support families,

1:41.0

or simply want to better understand how resilience is built.

1:47.3

This conversation offers a thoughtful framework.

1:48.6

You can apply immediately.

1:52.1

Before we get to the episode, I want to give a shout out to some sponsors.

1:57.7

First one is the School Behavioral Solutions for Special Educators and Behavior Analyst,

...

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