Refugees and borders
Moral Maze
BBC
4.4 • 623 Ratings
🗓️ 17 March 2022
⏱️ 43 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Nearly three million people have fled Ukraine since the Russian tanks crossed the border at the end of February. Some say the UK was slow to respond but many thousands of people are now signed up to a government scheme to turn their houses into homes for Ukrainian refugees - the first should arrive soon. There has been an outpouring of generosity and goodwill toward those suffering in this conflict, but uncomfortable questions remain. Are we really doing enough? Why such generosity now, when we have spent years discussing how to keep migrants out? Is it morally acceptable to feel more comfortable welcoming large numbers of Ukrainian - rather than Syrian or Afghan - refugees? Is racism a factor, or is it simply that these people are fleeing an enemy who threatens us too?
Shortly the Nationality and Borders Bill will return to be voted on in Parliament. Campaigners say the bill is at odds with rhetoric about welcoming refugees as it could criminalise those who arrive to seek asylum in the UK without first filling in the correct forms. Is it right to put up yet more barriers? Perhaps it is a failure of moral imagination to turn away any individual who wants to make a better life? Some economists argue that the free movement of workers makes nations prosperous, but there’s more to Britain than its economy, and not everyone wants to do away with borders. How, without fierce gate-keepers, can we protect the places where we feel at home? With the human rights campaigner Bella Sankey; David Goodhart, who researches integration at the centre right think-tank Policy Exchange; the Chair of Britain’s oldest Immigration Museum, Susie Symes; and the former MEP and journalist Patrick O'Flynn.
Produced by Olive Clancy
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, podcasts. |
| 0:04.8 | Good evening. So many thousands of people want to take in Ukrainian refugees |
| 0:08.9 | that the government website set up to register the process this week promptly crashed. |
| 0:14.0 | Across Europe, the response to this, the biggest refugee crisis since the Second World War, |
| 0:18.3 | has been extraordinarily generous, with those fleeing welcomed |
| 0:21.8 | almost everywhere. Here, the government has struggled to keep up with the public sympathy. |
| 0:26.8 | It's even under pressure to waive quarantine rules for refugees' pets. Contrast all this |
| 0:32.3 | with the prevailing attitudes to those fleeing places like Syria and Afghanistan, shutters |
| 0:37.1 | going up across Europe, |
| 0:38.5 | and a bill going through Parliament here to tighten our borders. |
| 0:42.3 | Lots of big questions here. |
| 0:43.8 | What's our duty to refugees? |
| 0:45.6 | There's a housing crisis here, |
| 0:47.2 | a million on waiting lists for social homes. |
| 0:50.0 | How do we balance the interests of our citizens |
| 0:52.0 | with the needs of fleeing foreigners? |
| 0:55.0 | Is it not just natural, but morally acceptable to prioritise those who look like us, behave like |
| 1:00.8 | us, live closer to us over those who are different and from farther away? |
| 1:05.8 | And what about borders? Are they a denial of our common humanity, an unavoidable, if regrettable necessity, or are they what defines us as a nation and a moral community? |
| 1:17.1 | That's our moral maze tonight. |
| 1:18.4 | The panel, Anne McHalevoy, senior editor at The Economist, Mona Siddiqui, Professor of Islamic and Interreligious Studies at Edinburgh University, the historian Tim Stanley, and the priest and polemacist, Giles Fraser. Jiles, have you turned over the spare room of the rectory to Ukrainian refugees? Do you know, I really don't like that question. And the reason I don't like that question, and people ask it all the time, is it's a question that's there to sort of try and undermine people's generosity. People have been very generous in, or, you know, claims to generosity. This is of undermine people's generosity. People have been very generous in |
| 1:44.5 | or you know claims to generosity. This is what I want to do. People have been very generous in this |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from BBC, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of BBC and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.