Yeah, and I think he talks about this on like two poles. It's like Christianity in the United States operates on like, oh, not just Christianity, I would say like this kind of spiritual vacuousness operates on two poles. On one hand, you have this extreme fundamentalism which looks to specifically

Christianity as making sense of you know a disordered world where these you know whether it's queer folks

whether it's indigenous people they don't make sense to the settler order so therefore they

must be like eliminated right there's an eliminatory logic that doesn't just apply to indigenous people, you know,

writ large, but it's also applied to other groups of people as well, you know, especially like

black folks in this country. And then on the other hand you have a sort of kind of more liberal

spiritual vacuousness that gets, you know, replaced by kind of a consumer culture where it's like

finding spiritual meaning finding belonging so to speak in a world

that you don't belong to in a land that you don't belong to it becomes commodified like a brand of laundry detergent that you can just go and pick, you know, whatever suits your needs, you know, and you can assemble it into various kind of categories or the

the rise of like yoga culture which is like literally just Indian you know spiritual practice

or like the rise of like you know sweat lodges or the burning of sage like I see people

burning sage all the time I mean it like I don't get it like what was it how do you

buy spirituality for 599?

Yeah, and you know it reminds me of you know places that are trying to decolonize

especially spirituality and spiritual practices like Bolivia, you know, my friend of the show and also friend of mine, Vivi Camacho, you know, she works for the vice ministry of

ancestral medicines. Oh, no of ancestral medicines. Oh.

No of ancestral medicines and I think plant knowledge in Bolivia.

But one thing that they're trying to do is regulate Ayahuasca because you have drug tourists mostly just like white guys who

come to places like you know Bolivia and Peru and the Andean regions and they pay you know what they call quote unquote

shamans to go on these like spiritual trips and it's like they're drug tourists

much like there are people who go through parts of Southeast Asia to buy sex, you know,

there's sex tourists and like how is it that Western culture and I was thinking

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