Hi, I'm Mayan Bialik. And I'm Jonathan Cohen. And welcome to our breakdown. It is autism month. And we have so many interesting episodes that talk about autism, but we wanted to revisit a very popular episode from 2024 that we had with Holly Madison. She's a former Playboy playmate. She was Hugh Hefner's main girlfriend. The time he was 54 years her senior. She made a name for herself as one of the stars of the girl's next door and has gone on to be a best-selling author and the host and executive producer of the True Crime series The Playboy Murders. Holly opened up with us. This was really an early conversation in the sort of cultural vernacular talking about autism diagnoses late in life, and she opened up about being diagnosed in adulthood and how it changed her entire outlook on life, and in particular how she looked back at her time as a playboy bunny and as Hugh Hefner's girlfriend with a completely different perspective in light of her autism diagnosis. We thought it would make the perfect conversation to re-air in honor of autism awareness month. We really hope you enjoy it. And as a reminder, come check us out on Substack, my name, Biallik's Breakdown on Substack. We hope you enjoy our episode with Holly Madison. Break it down. Thanks for having me. I'm holding your book, which is down the rabbit hole, but there's so many other things that you do as part of your public persona. You've had a very long and really interesting career since coming to our TV screens. I wonder if you can talk a little bit about how you grew up. You were born in Alaska, is that right? I was actually born in Oregon. I lived there until I was about two and a half three. Then we moved to Alaska. We lived on Prince of Wales Island. A couple different places that were really, really remote to the point where you're basically living in the woods in like a mobile home and we would have to order our groceries ahead of time and it would

like come on a ship and everybody's groceries would come at once you'd go drive me to ship, get your groceries, things like that. And then by the time I was in like kindergarten, we were in a town called Craig, which is a very small town, but they have like a school and things like that. You know what trips me out thinking back on it as a parent now is we didn't even have

a doctor in that town.

Or even on the island.

There was like, I asked my mom about it.

I'm like, it as a parent now is we didn't even have a doctor in that town or even on the island. There was like I asked my mom about it. I'm like because as a parent now I can't even imagine that because just my kids fall and get a scrape and I panic and I freak out and I was like how did you do that? Was there even like a doctor's office shoot and she's like no there was like a registered nurse who like lived there I'm like, but I remember once, you know, we were on vacation down in Oregon

visiting my aunt, Uncle, and we went to this place called Enchanted Forest, which is this little amusement park. And I ended up breaking my leg there and getting a cast and everything. But when I had to go to the doctor to get the cast checked and get the cast taken off, you have to fly, you know, from back home somewhere else, to fly to a completely different island just to like see a doctor.

So it was a lot and I don't know how my parents did it really.

Why? Why did they do that?

They had... back home somewhere else, you had to fly to a completely different island just to like see a doctor. So it was a lot and I don't know how my parents did it really. Why? Why did

they do that? They and my dad was in the timber industry and he just kept getting promoted and moving a lot. And then we moved out of there when I was like 10, like in fourth grade, we moved back to Oregon. So we moved around a lot when I was a kid. Jonathan is Canadian. Jonathan, you have a lot to say about timber and logs. Would you like to share anything?

Where are you from in Canada?

I'm from Toronto, which is like obviously a major city, so you know, I did not chop any timber. The only thing I can contribute to the timber conversation is the famous Canadian cartoon of my generation, The Log Driver, which is a show of all of our Canadian listeners. No one knows this except like a handful of Canadians. Jonathan, would you like to sing the Lumber song? Dumber song? I'm going to be too... I struggled to be put on the spot, but literally there's a fantastic song. If you Google, I'm sure YouTube has it. It's The Log Driver and he goes down and down this river dancing from log to log. And it's a Canadian classic of the early 80s. Oh my god, that's so funny. That reminds me of like the Disney Paul Bunyan cartoon. I don't know if you're ever seeing that. I get that visual. But yeah, the the Canadian he's shown me this Canadian video thing. And it looks like it was made in the 60s because Canada's just a little different. Yeah. Yeah. And Canada feels a little bit like the 60s in America. I don't know what was going on. But we've caught up since we've caught up since. Okay. So then you moved back to Oregon. Yeah. When I was about 10, there's a lot of curiosity I have about people who, you know, enter, for example, the Playboy universe.

Yeah. Meaning like, I'm very curious. Like, oh, was that something that was, you know, I grew up at a time where there was like a little stigma to that. Meaning it was like, ooh, that's racy. And like, that's a grown-up thing. And, you know, for our kids now, like, like a lot of the stuff that you used to have to buy a Playboy magazine to look at, you

can just find, you know, in the palm of your hand on a cell phone. So, you know, so much

is... And a lot of the stuff that you used to have to buy a Playboy magazine to look at, you can just find, you know, in the palm of your hand on a cell phone. So, you know, so much has changed, but I am curious, you know, before we get into sort of, you know, how you got into, you know, the beauty world, the presentational world, which is, you know, when you were in college, did you have any notions as a kid of like, Oh, this is a world I could someday get into or this is something we don't do or was pornography like something that you thought about? I'm just curious. You know, it was kind of, there were all kinds of influences when I was a kid that kind of led to that decision. I mean, the first one I think was I really as a little kid loved Madonna. I thought she was so cool and I I thought she was one of the rare examples in media, back in the 80s at that time, of like a woman who seemed really in charge, which is kind of curious. But yeah, I really liked her. And then I remember when I was in fourth grade, my aunt gave me this paper doll book, and it was Marilyn Monroe Paper dolls. And it had like a little biography of her on the back and like all the years and the list of her film and I became really

obsessed with her and just kind of like the glamour industry in general really, you know, made an impression on me. And I knew what Playboy was from a young age because like my dad had a subscription and I remember when the magazine would come to the house like they used to have this thing on the front where there was like a hidden bunny logo and you had to find it.

And of course when you're a kid and you hear that somebody's like looking for a

bunny on a cover magazine, like that somebody's like looking for a bunny

on a cover of magazine, like that seems like it's something for kids even though it's not. So that was like intriguing. And I remember just thinking it was funny that there were naked people in a magazine. So certainly wasn't something I thought about a lot, but I can look back and see like the little seeds of things that made that kind of thing seem attractive to me for sure.

And obviously, you know, this is kind of an unspoken truth is that there's certain people who, let's say, in high school, in college, in their 20s are like, oh, that's a person who might be in playboy and there's other people for whom that's not a possibility. Was there a point where you were like, I'm pretty, I'm pretty in a special way.

Like, this is a world I could get into.

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