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The Lawfare Podcast

Rational Security: The “Whole Etsy Store of Horrors” Edition

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

Military, Intelligence, International Law, Constitutional Law, Rule Of Law, Politics, International Relations, News, Government, History, Diplomacy, Terrorism, National Security, Current Events, Law, Foreign Policy

4.76.2K Ratings

🗓️ 20 August 2025

⏱️ 87 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This week, Scott sat down with his colleagues Anna Bower, Chris Mirasola, and Mykhailo Soldatenko to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

  • “Wings and a Prayer.” The Ukraine conflict has been the subject of intense shuttle diplomacy over the past week, as President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin flew to a meeting in Alaska last Friday, only for Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and a cadre of European leaders to fly to Washington, DC, to meet with Trump yesterday at the White House. What do we know about their conversations? And could this be a turning point in the conflict?
  • “Capital Offense.” It’s been more than a week since President Trump chose to make law enforcement in Washington, DC—a city he has derided as “taken over by violent gangs and bloodthirsty criminals”—a national priority, by deploying hundreds of National Guard personnel and federal law enforcement officers to the streets and seeking to assert federal control over the police department, in ways that triggered a legal challenge by the city. What is motivating this major policy effort? And where does it seem likely to lead?
  • “The Ep Files: I Want to Believe.” The Trump administration is reportedly installing a new “co-”deputy director at the FBI, in part because of controversy the current incumbent—former right-wing radio host Dan Bongino—has courted relating to the release of the so-called “Epstein Files.” And it’s indicative of the major problems that these files—and the potential that they may say something about President Trump’s relationship with the notorious sex offender for whom they are named—are causing President Trump and his administration. What’s driving this rare point of dissent among the president’s core supporters? And what ramifications could it have for our justice system?

In object lessons, Anna hyped a new Kelce brothers podcast episode that featured some girl that Travis is dating. Chris recommended a crafty parenting hack: taking your kid to Michael’s for some unplugged, creative fun. Scott channeled his inner influencer, telling you where you can find the newest, hippest dog shirts. And Mykhailo brought us back down to Earth with a recommendation of Timothy Snyder’s YouTube series, The Making of Modern Ukraine, for a dive into the context and real causes for the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

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Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

The following podcast contains advertising.

0:04.4

To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare at

0:11.5

patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare.

0:18.2

Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter, Lawfare No Bull,

0:26.9

and The Aftermath.

0:30.2

So, Anna, I can only assume you have been chased from Washington, D.C. by the military forces

0:37.1

that have invaded and forcefully

0:38.7

evicted, perhaps one step ahead of invading troops, like our revolutionary forbearers,

0:43.4

because you are in new surroundings. They're very stylish surroundings. I have to say, I feel like

0:46.8

you're hitting. I see a very forward-looking modernist lighting fixture over your head. You've

0:52.1

got a brick wall. You've got some minimalist kitchen appliances. I think I see a stripe of marble coming behind you. You are hitting like

0:58.1

every architectural element a millennial dreams of these days. Where are you coming to us from?

1:03.0

Yeah, thanks Scott. This is in my sublet in New York. I recently moved up here for the summer and

1:10.3

then probably much longer as well. So I can't claim

1:14.4

credit for any of the design features in the background because it's obviously the people who

1:21.0

own my apartment did all that. But I can claim credit for the little map on the mantle over the fireplace.

1:30.0

I was going to mention the map.

1:31.5

What is the map of?

1:32.4

I am like drawn to the map.

1:34.0

Honestly, I don't know.

1:35.2

I got it from the farmer's market in D.C.

1:38.2

And I just like was walking by and I was like, oh, I like green.

...

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