Scaling Laws: Export Controls: Janet Egan, Sam Winter-Levy, and Peter Harrell on the White House's Semiconductor Decision

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 21 August 2025

⏱️ 55 minutes

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Summary

Alan Rozenshtein, Research Director at Lawfare, sits down with Sam Winter-Levy, a Fellow in the Technology and International Affairs Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace; Janet Egan, a Senior Fellow with the Technology and National Security Program at the Center for a New American Security; and Peter Harrell, a Nonresident Fellow at Carnegie and a former Senior Director for International Economics at the White House National Security Council under President Joe Biden.

They discuss the Trump administration’s recent decision to allow U.S. companies Nvidia and AMD to export a range of advanced AI semiconductors to China in exchange for a 15% payment to the U.S. government. They talk about the history of the export control regime targeting China’s access to AI chips, the strategic risks of allowing China to acquire powerful chips like the Nvidia H20, and the potential harm to the international coalition that has worked to restrict China’s access to this technology. They also debate the statutory and constitutional legality of the deal, which appears to function as an export tax, a practice explicitly prohibited by the Constitution.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising.
0:04.4	To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare at
0:11.5	patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare.
0:18.2	Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter,
0:25.2	Lawfare No Bull, and The Aftermath. It's the Lawfare podcast. I'm Kevin Frazier,
0:34.8	the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior editor at Lawfare.
0:40.7	Today we're bringing you something a little different. It's an episode from our new podcast series, Scaling Laws.
0:48.3	Scaling Laws is a creation of Lawfare and Texas law. It has a pretty simple aim, but a huge mission.
0:55.0	We cover the most important AI and law policy questions that are top of mind for everyone,
1:00.0	from Sam Altman to Senators on the Hill, to folks like you.
1:05.0	We dive deep into the weeds of new laws, various proposals, and what the labs are up to
1:10.0	make sure you're up to date
1:11.9	on the rules and regulations, standards, and ideas that are shaping the future of this pivotal
1:17.1	technology. If that sounds like something you're going to be interested in, and our hunches
1:21.5	it is, you can find scaling laws wherever you subscribe to podcasts. you can also follow us on X and Blue Sky.
1:29.1	Thank you.
1:34.0	When the AI overlords take over, what are you most excited about?
1:37.9	It's not crazy. It's just smart.
1:40.6	And just this year, in the first six months, there have been something like a thousand laws.
1:44.9	Who's actually building the scaffolding around how it's going to work, how everyday folks are
1:49.6	going to use it? AI only works if society lets it work. There are so many questions have to be
1:55.0	figured out and nobody came to my bonus class. Let's enforce the rules of the road.
	...

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