Rational Security: The “No Banner is Safe” Edition
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 21 May 2026
⏱️ 74 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
This week, Scott sat down with co-host emeritus Benjamin Wittes and Brookings Senior Fellow Kari Heerman to talk through the week’s big news in national security, including:
- “With Friends Like Xi.” This past week, top U.S. officials and business CEOs traveled with President Trump to Beijing for his summit with Chinese President Xi Jinping. The summit had a warm air to it, with Trump going so far as to call Xi his “friend,” a far cry from his hawkish stance toward China during the campaign and his prior administration. But Trump left having made relatively few concrete deals on the host of issues dividing the U.S. and China. Did Trump miss an opportunity here? Or is the seeming thaw in relations a positive sign for future cooperation?
- “Dirty Dancing: Havana Fights.” Cuba ran out of oil last week, but the Trump administration’s pressure campaign against the island nation 90 miles off the coast of Florida has only intensified. On Monday, the U.S. announced new sanctions on three Cuban government agencies and 11 top officials amidst reports that the Department of Justice may seek an indictment against Raúl Castro, the 94-year-old brother of Fidel Castro and former president of Cuba. And surveillance flights over the island nation have reportedly increased in advance of an expected military build-up in coming weeks. How seriously should we take Trump’s threats to pursue regime change in yet another country after Iran and Venezuela? And how long can Cuba hang on with its economic situation becoming more dire?
- “I’ve Got 122 Problems, and a Tariff is One.” On May 7, the U.S. Court of International Trade struck down yet another round of Trump tariffs—this time, the across-the-board 10% Section 122 tariffs that President Trump had imposed after the Supreme Court invalidated the earlier tariffs he’d issued under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. Specifically, the Court of International Trade ruled that the administration cannot meet the statutory requirements for using Section 122, though its ruling has since been stayed by the Federal Circuit pending appeal. Is this decision likely to stick? With another legal defeat, what options does the administration have left to follow through on Trump’s trade policy?
In object lessons, Ben appeases the AI overlords with a glowing review of his latest experiments with Claude. Scott appeases his inner middle-aged man with a reprised recommendation of A Man on the Inside. And Kari fears that Americans are far from appeasing friends and allies in other democratic countries.
To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.
Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Hey everyone, Scott R. Anderson here. |
| 0:06.5 | As a senior editor with Lawfare, you might know me as the guy always rambling about treaties |
| 0:11.5 | and war powers, or perhaps as the host of rational security. |
| 0:15.4 | What you might not know is that lawfare has been a part of my life a lot longer than I've |
| 0:19.0 | been contributing to it. Before I came to lawfare, I was a national security lawyer, an occasional diplomat working for the government, both here in Washington, D.C. and overseas. They were the sorts of jobs that wrestled with hard national security choices of the type lawfare specializes in, which is why lawfare is one of the first things I opened when I got to my desk each morning. We're from Iran to Venezuela to back here at home. Those questions haven't gotten any easier. Policymakers, |
| 0:41.7 | journalists, and citizens all need the sort of deep, nonpartisan expertise lawfare specializes |
| 0:46.4 | in, now more than ever. Lawfare is also a non-profit, meaning we're committed to keeping |
| 0:51.3 | all of our core content from getting put behind a paywall. |
| 0:58.0 | But we can't do it without help from the people who read and listen to us, people like you. |
| 1:03.0 | So if you can, visit lawfaremedia.org slash support and join our community of supporters. |
| 1:15.7 | Just $10 a month will make a world a difference in helping us keep lawfare free to everyone for a long time to come. So, Ben, I understand you have been up to some of your old tricks, once again, newly |
| 1:21.5 | liberated from captivity. |
| 1:23.2 | What did you get up to last night? |
| 1:24.8 | Well, I may have projected on the Trump banner at the Justice |
| 1:30.5 | Department last night. I mean, I wouldn't confirm or deny that, but, you know, somebody seems |
| 1:37.4 | to have projected the John Adams quotation, a government of laws, not of men, right across the face of the scowling Donald Trump |
| 1:46.6 | image hanging on the main justice building. And there is a news story in NBC that it was done by |
| 1:54.6 | a group of former Justice Department officials called Justice Connection to protest the $1.8 billion slush fund. But if you were to |
| 2:05.1 | allege that I was a consultant on the project and may have been operating the projectors in |
| 2:13.4 | question, I wouldn't be able to sue you for liable. |
| 2:20.6 | This is not a very covert operation, but that's fine. Wouldn't you the appropriate target, given the recent attention of Lord and Laser |
| 2:27.3 | be the Parks Department? |
... |
Transcript will be available on the free plan in 15 days. Upgrade to see the full transcript now.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from The Lawfare Institute, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of The Lawfare Institute and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.

