It's a thin line between desperation and inspiration.

A sane and rational market system is built on pillars of citizenship.

We all got to show up. We all depend on one another.

It's been stressful. It's been high-paced. It's been nerve-wracking.

It's been scary at times to consider opportunities and then think, is that safe?

To have a successful business right now is to have built it on a foundation of systemic racism.

It doesn't mean your business is super actively racist.

It means it's a strived in a system that was designed to be super actively racist.

America is in a very deep hole and we don't get out of the hole by just stopping the digging.

Now you're just stuck in the hole. You have to climb out.

You have to generate that positive freedom, which means anti-racism, which means an active effort to undo the things that put us in the hole in the first place.

That's Baratunde Thurston, writer, media entrepreneur, Ted and South by Southwest Speaker, and host of the podcast, How to Citizen with Baratunde.

For many of us, 2020 has been a year of upended business plans alongside unexpected and sometimes uncomfortable opportunities.

Baratunde is not only experienced that journey, he's been a counselor and advisor to many other business leaders navigating these uncharted times.

I'm Bob Safian, former editor of Fast Company, founder of the Flux Group, and host of Massage of Scale, Rapid Response.

I wanted to talk with Baratunde because he's a passionate advocate for embracing change in business, but doing so responsibly and intentionally.

From a love-hate assessment of tech platforms like Facebook to blunt words about addressing race and diversity in corporate environments, Baratunde offers clear, honest advice about the need for what he calls citizening, from companies and all of us. Let's listen in.

We'll start the show in a moment. Afterward from our premier brand partner, Capital One Business.

I'm explaining to them what this product could look like and all the work that needed to be done.

My first thought was this person is going to freak out and be like, I'm out of the door.

That's a harness, Aaron, CMO of Capital One Business. And she's talking about a vital lesson she learned while hiring for her had a product.

She was concerned the candidate would be intimidated by the volume of challenges ahead, but that's not what happened.

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