we love to tell ourselves this story of linear progress that it's you know it's a ladder when really and I'm quoting someone else when I say this

another artist who said you know it's a checkerboard not a ladder and for most artistic careers.

So that I think to me was a really useful analogy when I thought about the way my own artistic

career has ebbed and flowed and of course the people in the book a few of the people in particular in the book

had really interesting insights in terms of that concept of making it and how, you know, for one of them, he said, you know, at this point, I just, I trust in my own work ethic.

Really my only job is to put in the hours and everything else it's not up to me.

I'm Srenny Rao and this is the unmistakable Creative Podcast where you get a window into the stories and insights of the most innovative and creative minds who started movements, built driving businesses, written best-selling books, and created insanely interesting art.

For more, check out our 500 episode archive at unmistakable Creative.com. Attention to all passengers. You can now book your train tickets on Uber and get 10% back in Uber credits to spend on your next train journey.

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Rachel, welcome to the unmistakable Creative. Thanks for taking the time to join us.

Thank you.

So I stumbled up on your book when I was wandering through A Barnes and Noble back in the days when we could actually do that, which sounds so strange to even say out loud.

And lo and behold, I come to find out you had actually emailed me about writing this book and somehow I probably never got back to you or vice versa

...