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I'm Michael Gove, editor of The Spectator. And I'm Madeline Grant, assistant editor and parliamentary

sketchwriter of The Spectator. This week in a very special edition, but quite right,

we'll be talking to Dominic Cummings. And in the first part, Dominic will take us into Whitehall, into what he calls the heart of darkness.

And we'll discuss what went right and what went wrong under Boris Johnson's premiership.

And in particular, we'll look at the vexed question of COVID.

For the full thing, search quite right wherever you are listening to this podcast, or find

us on YouTube at Spectator TV.

Here's a little taste of what you could expect.

How did we get here and is it fixable?

Wow.

Going with the big one right to kick off.

I thought, it seems completely crazy now. But I thought before the referendum,

we're going to win the referendum. And that is going to force Westminster to change in all sorts of ways. It's been financial crisis shit show, Brexit shit show, COVID shit show, Ukraine shit show. It's just

been one disaster after another. So a lot of people have had 15 years of their lives going nowhere,

so they're desperate. A secret process is evolved inside the government.

You either have to amend slash repeal Human Rights Act, or you have to put up with it.

But you have to make a choice.

...