Hi, I'm Jonah Goldberg. Sarah Isger, Steve Hayes, David French, they're not here. But we

got we got Declan Garvey and Kevin Williamson. And this is the dispatch podcast. We're going

to talk a little bit about the debt ceiling, hullabaloo, the classified documents, hullabaloo.

And whether or not the GOP is just simply a culture war party these days with what allows

us to talk about and we'll see what else may be worth your time.

So as Sarah might say, if she were WWE announcer, let's dive right in. Okay, so thank you guys

for joining me this morning. I just been a while since I fact I actually had to

professionally moderate something and today won't be the day where I start. Kevin, our

friend and former National Review colleague, Ramesh Puneeru had a good column in his new

Washington Post column where he makes the case that the only reason to be really scared

about how the debt ceiling thing is playing out is that nobody seems to be really scared.

Where do you come down on all that? That's a very remission. Puneeruvian way of looking

at things. Isn't it? Yeah, I mean, these sorts of standoffs are always a little bit of

loaded gun. I think that we exaggerate the likelihood or danger of an actual default

because the money that we have to spend on debt service is well under what we collect

in tax revenue. So there is money to pay for that stuff. The chaos comes from the likelihood

or possibility of having to shut down lots and lots of other stuff and or eventually pushing

finances to the point where they have to stop writing checks that people really care

about like social security and that sort of thing, although that seems pretty unlikely.

I'm up to minds about these these debt ceiling fights. I mean, it's a dumb way to I think

organize finances, but at some point new debt does have to be authorized by somebody and

that's Congress's job. So there's I don't think there's a really good way around having

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