In this episode, Joe Moore speaks with award-winning science journalist Erica Rex about her personal experience participating in psychedelic research, her upcoming book Seeing What Is There: My Search for Sanity in the Psychedelic Era, and the complex story behind the recently published Religious Leader Psilocybin Study from Johns Hopkins and NYU.

They examine:

Erica's firsthand experience as a participant in the original 2012 study that helped launch Roland Griffiths' prominence in psychedelic science.

The goals and outcomes of the Religious Leader Study, which sought to explore how psilocybin might impact religious leaders' effectiveness and connection to their communities.

The methodological and ethical problems that plagued the study.

The influence of perennialist frameworks and the limitations of measures like the Mystical Experience Questionnaire (MEQ).

Broader concerns about the infiltration of religious ideology and lack of rigor in psychedelic science.

A deep critique of the institutional systems that allowed flawed research processes to go unchecked — and how these patterns risk repeating the mistakes of the 1960s psychedelic wave.

Joe and Erica also dive into how modern psychedelic science struggles to reconcile subjective experience, spirituality, and the reductionist standards of academic research. They discuss Matt Johnson's paper critiquing "psychedelic consciousness" framing and explore whether our current scientific tools are capable of capturing the depth of psychedelic experience.

Erica's forthcoming book, slated for release in January 2026, blends memoir, neuroscience, and social critique. It offers a critical insider's view of the psychedelic renaissance—its promise, pitfalls, and the ways it mirrors broader systemic issues in science and culture.