This is Hidden Killers with Tony Brewski.

When detective sat Richard Allen down to discuss the Delphi murders of Abby and Libby,

they didn't exactly invite him in for tea and biscuits.

Instead, they tried every trick in the book to break him down using flawed forensic claims, pressure,

emotional appeals, flat out lies. It's likely watched too many episodes of Law and Order without

checking the science homework first. Psychotherapist Sivan Scott joins us today to help unpack

what exactly was happening in the interrogation room,

and we have a lot of clips to walk through and witness as far as what happened now that they

are released.

Shavon, before we do that, when interrogators use exaggerated or even fictional expert evidence,

because that's what was used in here, to pressure someone into confessing something

they didn't do. How does that typically impact someone psychologically, especially like this,

where, again, I don't believe he did it. And I think a lot of people don't believe that he did it.

So we're going to operate on that plane.

It really is designed to coerce a confession, and a lot of us have ethical concerns about the tactics

that are used in these kind of interrogations. But it is pretty standard, you know, across most

law enforcement agencies, and it is designed to elicit cognitive and emotional fatigue to completely break the person down.

And at some point, a vulnerable person may just agree because they want out of the pressure.

So they may say they did it when, in fact, they didn't.

And you never got a confession out of him while he was in a good

place, in a sane, healthy mindset. But the argument is, oh, well, he confessed later in those

phone calls. And we're going to get to that in just a little bit. But at what point, I mean, I get some of these tactics,

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