I also don't think that there's good and bad in terms of like people.

Like I think that all people are a mixture of good things that they do and bad things that they do.

And even the things we do and think are a bit gray and nuanced.

It's way more interesting as well to see things as a bit complicated than to just pretend

that there's these really stark and easy to define differences between good and bad or innocent or

guilty even for that matter. It's often a little bit less straightforward than we think it is and I think that's exactly why I like psychology.

You are listening to Made of Human, also known as the Mopard, a podcast hosted by Sophie

Hagen, who is a Danish comedian

trying to find out how to do life

but it turns out nobody knows. If you have paid attention in the last couple of months, you will know that I have been working on a very new podcast with a Dr Julia show, a criminal psychologist, and it's a podcast that is produced by and broadcast by,

published by, what's it called, presented by, I don't know, sounds so I am it's one of the I'm not as you know I'm used to doing this

podcasting thing myself so I don't have to listen to anyone else but myself which I prefer and suddenly I have to do what the BBC tells me to and

Fortunately, they've been very good

So I'm not complaining. I'm just saying it's a strange thing for me.

Anyways we have recorded 10 episodes we're at the moment hoping that we're going to get more

it seems quite likely, so I decided to invite Dr.

Julia Shaw onto this podcast to chat with her a bit because when we do record

the podcast which by the way is called Bad People and it's a true crime

podcast about evil and people that are considered evil by society and we're

talking about that we talk about evil people and science and we argue quite a lot because we disagree about quite a lot.

But I've not really gotten to talk to Julia in a more sort of, yeah, about her. So I'm very happy that we had this conversation. It went really well and I was, I don't know why I was surprised because we've spoken, I mean, each episode we recorded took like four or five hours to record plus all the prep and stuff so I've spoken to her for like 60 hours over Zoom so I don't know why I was surprised that it was quite effortless to have this conversation with her but nevertheless

I'm really proud of it. I'm really happy I think you're gonna really like her and she says some great stuff and her extra

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