Welcome back to the podcast, bribes, windle, or steel.

I'm Alexandra Ragi, and we're talking today about the growing concern about how difficult

it is to distinguish real news from material that is completely fabricated, whether for political

reasons or simply to generate clicks.

One of the leaders in this field is Melissa Goulden.

Melissa is a New York-based news verification reporter at the Associated Press, where she analyzes

and debunks misinformation. She covers everything from the U.S. elections to fake alien

invasions. Melissa, thank you for joining me. Thank you for having

me. Why don't you start by describing your career paths to this unusual specialization, and it's

probably one that we didn't even know we needed until very recently? To be honest, I didn't know it was

needed when I was in college when I was thinking about what I wanted to do with my career. And I got into it kind of by accident, which I think is how a lot of

people end up doing what they're doing job-wise. I traveled in South America after the first

full-time job I had after college, and I was kind of trying to figure out what I wanted to do when I

got back. I wanted to go into journalism, and I of trying to figure out what I wanted to do when I got back. I wanted to

go into journalism and I was trying to figure out in what way I would go into journalism. My friend

happened to be freelancing for an organization called NewsGuard and they review news information

sites for credibility and transparency. So I reached out to them and started

working for them full time. And that's how I got into kind of the misinformation niche.

And then after a few years at NewsGuard, I started my role at the Associated Press. And my role at

NewsGuard was kind of more broad. So I was looking at website to the whole. And my role at NewsGuard was kind of more broad. So I was looking at

websites of the whole. And my role at the Associated Press is more granular. And so looking at

specific claims of misinformation, like the little details. What does that look like on a day-to-day

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