This is the Cato Daily Podcast for Tuesday, October 18th, 2016.

I'm Caleb Brown.

Trade and freedom of movement are keys to human progress.

So why have the two leading candidates for president gotten so far on putting restrictions

on the institutions that have lifted so many millions out of poverty?

Cato Institute Senior Fellow Johann Norberg is author of the new book Progress,

Ten Reasons to Look Forward to the Future.

We spoke last week.

Before we started recording here, you said that once upon a time,

and I presume it wasn't that long ago you thought of the United States

as the great haven for escape given all the troubles in Europe and now you're not so sure.

I used to always consider the US as some sort of reservoir of freedom.

If we mess things up badly in Europe and other parts of the world. This is the place where we can all go and

or at least have hope that this progress will continue here. Now it's almost the opposite,

the other way around. When I look at the kind of election season you have,

when I look at Hillary Clinton, this kind of stateist, interventionist attitude

which seems like the worst person in the world to have that kind of office

except one Donald Trump who seems almost worse than that.

All right so in their particular policy prescriptions, of course these people don't exist in a vacuum, right?

They are candidates or leading candidates for president because they have a group of people that like what they're saying about trade,

about immigration, about the United States having military adventures around the world.

So what bothers you the most about what you're hearing about the kinds of things that according

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