This is John Batchzer. Conversation with Jonathan Pelson, highly recommended book, Wireless Wars,

China's Dangerous Domination of 5G and How We're Fighting Back. This looks into the late 20th century

when China was barely scratching along on the revival from the horrors of the cultural revolution.

And they needed telephones, so they called up AT&T. And AT&T sends a 23-year-old named Hurd.

And his mission is to sell China 1G, old equipment, discarded cellular equipment. China wanted the best.

They got old stuff from America. However, the Chinese kind of negotiating was new to Mr. Hurd,

and the lawyer sat with him day after day after day, his lawyer, while they listened to

the Chinese bargain for the best equipment. They wanted the best. They got the old stuff,

but they wanted the best. Early days. This is not China the predator state. China threatening

its neighbors. This is a desperate the predator state. China threatening its neighbors.

This is a desperate, hungry China.

He wanted to be modern.

I wanted to shed the cultural revolution.

A great leap forward, the brutality of the Maoist era.

Early 90s.

Here's Jonathan Pelson. much more of this tonight.

Wireless wars.

Well, I find it incredible that this company sent a 23-year-old off to China to negotiate on behalf of the world's biggest communications company,

how to set up the first joint ventures for a factory in China.

But Brewington made the right choice.

David Hurd, when I was talking to him about the book, interviewing him,

I said, so you were going to school nights while you worked at AT&T?

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