This is John Batcher, conversation with Henry Sikalski, my colleague Executive Director

Non-Proliferation Policy Education Center, about how China, not Russia, not the U.S.

China is developing an intercontinental ballistic missile and ICBM with a non-nuclear

weapon warhead.

Why?

Because you can use it to take out infrastructure of an adversary. Witness what Russia is doing to Ukraine now

with short-range and medium-range missiles. Destoring the infrastructure is seen

as a better than using a nuclear weapon where you can't

impossibly use the country afterwards for quite some time.

Non-nuclear warhead, the coming thing in ICBM's.

Here's Henry to explain. More of this later.

We're not there.

China is said by the Pentagon to be developing such capabilities.

It's not clear if they're ICBMs or cruise missiles,

but I suspect it's ICBMs.

2030. but I suspect it's ICPM's 2030. The United States currently has no such program. I don't know of any program that the Russians have. But partly we're not talking about this. The more we

talk about this, the more likely it is that we will have programs. And my guess is

it's just a matter of time. You know, when I say we, the United States.

This is... But the Chinese are, you know, probably going to be the pacing threat.

And when they get closer to deploying these things, people will get excited

and say, well, maybe we should. Then we will.