This is John Batcher from a conversation with Judy Dempsey in Berlin, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace keeping the site strategic Europe, how Berlin and how the EU heard the remarks by President Biden on Thursday night displaying challenges

about his ability to continue in office for another term.

Judy is very straightforward about this.

There are doubts about Mr. Biden.

There are doubts about Mr. Trump,

and what is to be done is what she addresses what can Europe do about it what

can the EU do about it here's Judy Dempsey on the quandary of the American

election in 2024. More of this later. On the political elite level there there's not

much said. Of course the media reported, but it's one of puzzlement that Joe Biden continues to run.

It's one of Pousimals that two very old men are running to get control of the White House.

But essentially, in terms of the political parties here it's certainly galvanized their thinking in the sense that

where is Europe going to be after November 2024 and there's little strategic thinking on all of this

and there had been several years to actually think strategically on how Europe is going to deal with this.

But now there's just an obsession that Trump will win instead of, well, let's hope that Biden will win and despite all the criticisms

about his health and other issues but there's one of of concern there's one of

apprehension and actually there's one of apprehension, and actually there's one of, I must say, kind of helplessness, and what's

going to need is really leadership among the EU countries to say, okay, we've got a problem with the United States and

let's get Ukraine fixed on our terms and with you with the with European financial, social, political and military assistance.

I mean, this is the chance for Europe to really show what it can do.

Thank you.