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This is John Batchel, speaking with Craig Unger, the author of the new book, Den of Spies.

This is the story of October Surprise.

Craig has chased it for decades, and he has it now in a new book that puts everything together.

Here he introduces Gary Sick, a member of the National Security Council during the Carter

administration, and a man who identified very carefully early on the dimensions of the October

surprise.

What was it?

Well, simply enough, the hostages were held in

Tehran, and it became the concern of the Reagan campaign, chiefly Bill Casey, the campaign manager,

that the hostages released would give a boost to Jimmy Carter and he would win the election.

And so they entered into negotiations that were never obvious and always denied and very difficult to prove

with Iran exchanging weapons and promises if you would keep the hostages until after the Carter administration is over.

That was the allegation in the 1990s of an event from 1980.

But it was never accepted wholly by lots of people. And Craig tells a story, beginning with who was Gary Sick? And what did he contribute to the beginning of the October surprise?

Legend, story, myth, delusion, fascination, investigation, all those things.

...