Sure. So defense conversion was an idea that circulated first around the 1960s, late 1950s, early 1960s in response to the proliferation of nuclear weapons in the United States and after World War II.

And also the larger expansion of national security state and the military

industrial complex after 1945, that is World War II.

And the idea was essentially, and there are debates about this, but the idea was essentially

to take America's massive military enterprise and convert that to social purposes, i.e., like, you know,

development in eventually what's called green jobs, environmental projects, taking just cuts

to the defense budget, or just cutting it together by, you know, massive amounts,

billions of dollars, and, you know, sending that into social welfare programs, i.e. universal

health care, right? I. Right. Right. Higher wages, you know, for all workers, full employment.

What Hillary Clinton would call a pony.

Maybe.

So, yeah, I mean, that's the idea.

And it really takes hold in the 60s.

And so, and the reason why I think is because you have, it's really only a couple

years where it starts to have currency in the 60s was between 62 and

63 because you have like the sort of the Cold War not being so hot at that point.

Like the Cold War is obviously not cold, but not as high at that point, but then comes Vietnam

and then that kind of destroys this idea.

But it gets brought back in the 1980s in response to Reagan's efforts to expand.

And he does expand the military complex and then try to get America off defense spending,

essentially, as a really a means of, like, and this is sort of the point, like, as a means to provide

jobs, as a means to provide health care, right, and this is sort of the point, like, as a means to provide jobs as a means to

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