This is John Batchel, conversation with colleague Jonathan Ward of the Hudson Institute

about reports that Peru is being undermined by the usual Chinese method of backscratching

and influence peddling and bribery. The government is unstable in Lima, and yet China's

put an enormous amount of money and prestige on the line, building an exclusive use, deepwater port in Peru.

This came about after the Peruvian legislature jailed the elected president and installed the vice president, who has been seen wearing very expensive watches.

I asked Jonathan Ward about this decision by China

to invest in an unstable sovereignty,

and Jonathan Ward is very careful to explain China's thinking,

Bellin Road, military, control,

all taken into account that corruption works.

Here's Jonathan Ward.

More of this tonight.

Look, I don't think we are taking advantage of that.

And the other element of that is not just that China exploits corruption and uses corruption as a tool for, you know, economic strategy.

It's that ultimately they're going to overlay their security forces in these countries.

And they've made that very clear.

And it was one of the key points of China's vision of victory that the Belt and Road is a military and geopolitical project ultimately. So if it comes

to instability in a country, I mean, they're going to protect, in their own words, in their

national defense strategy in 2015, they said, we are going to protect the ceaseless expansion of

our overseas interests, meaning with military force. So, you know, they are not, I think,

in the long run, planning to be subject to, you know, there are not, I think, in the long run planning to be subject to,

you know, political instability anywhere in the world. They're going to build the forces

...