Prayer is not wishful thinking aimed in God's direction.

Prayer is not just about aligning your will with God's.

At times, God has determined the way that he would change his mind or the way that he would change the course of

action that he set out to do is through the prayers of his people. And had people not pray,

God would not have worked. Welcome to the Crossway podcast, a show where we sit down with

authors each week for thoughtful interviews about the Bible,

theology, church history, and the Christian life.

I'm Matt Tully, and today I'm talking with John on O'Chekwa.

John serves as pastor of Cornerstone Church in Atlanta, Georgia, and a council member of the Gospel Coalition.

He's also the author of Prayer, How Praying Together Shapes the Church with Crossway.

Today, John and I discuss what it means to have a real relationship with God through prayer.

He shares about the day he received a phone call letting him know that his older brother had just died

unexpectedly and the impact that news had on his prayer life, ultimately leading him into a new

level of honesty and deeper intimacy with God.

He talks about what to do when we feel guilty about our prayer life and why prayer is intensely

practical, even when it seems like we're just sitting still and not being as productive.

Let's get started.

Well, John, thank you so much for joining us on the Crossway podcast today.

I'm glad to be here, man. It's an honor. So a few years back, just before you planted your church,

something pretty dramatic happened in your life. What was that? Yeah, it was six weeks before our church

started and I was at a conference, and I got a phone call that my older brother died suddenly, 32 years old in good health.

Some of the best.

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