Goody, humans. Welcome to the safe space for dangerous ideas. Here's a doozy for you. What will become of the left and the right? What's the future of conservatism? What's the future of progressive politics? One guy who understands it all is Peter Van Onsleron, who's an academic and political journalist. He's worked in government. He's worked in

intelligence. He's been the political editor of Network 10, one of the big networks in Australia

and a co-host of the project, which is a panel show about the news in Australia. He's currently

a professor of politics and public policy at the University of Western Australia. He's a

columnist for the Australian, and he's written the University of Western Australia. He's a columnist for the

Australian and he's written a ton of books about Australian prime ministers, mostly conservative

prime ministers and how they met their demise, Peter Van Onsoulin. Thanks for being here.

Goody, Josh. Thanks for having me. I like the shirt. If you're not watching on YouTube,

he's got a hoodie that says Waystar Royko on it.

And when I saw Waystar Royco, I thought, is that a real company or no? Hang on a second. That's from Succession. Well, I'm just a fan of the show. I didn't like the first season. I thought it took a while to get going. But I loved it by the end and I'm disappointed that they're not finding a way to kick it on. But I wore this

once on another program and got, and we're talking about the left and the right and whether they're

in demise, got equal amounts of hate from both. The right were criticizing me for wearing it because

they were saying that I was taking the Mickey out of the Murdox, who I write a column a week

for in the Australian. Obviously they're the owners. But then the left were attacking me for promoting the show because the Murdox who I write a column a week for in the Australian. Obviously, they're the owners. But then the left were attacking me for promoting the show because the Murdox own it, I think. Right. Or at least own one of the networks that it airs on. So I was sort of getting equal hate. And the truth was that I just wore it because of mate of mine I was wearing it the night before for dinner, probably had too much to drink with him. And he basically dared me to wear it the next day.

On the telly.

On the telly.

So I went, okay, fine. I like the fact that people picked it up as well, like noticed it as well. And that the left is so censorious that they don't think that you should be able to wear even a fictitious evil giant company. And it was on the ABC. So then there were also just the old-fashioned types, I think, who were concerned that there was a commercialisation of the ABC.

Oh, of course. giant company. And it was on the ABC. So then there were also just the old-fashioned types,

I think, who were concerned that there was a commercialisation of the ABC.

Oh, of course. Yes. Why are you advertising a commercial network?

So let's just talk about some recent news, which is while I was away, there was some concern

that Orcus, which is this big submarine deal, probably the biggest defense, a strategic shift in Australia

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