This is the Tom Hartman program.

And welcome back, Tom Hartman here with you.

And on the line with us is Professor Elizabeth Hinton, historian, associate professor of history

and African American studies at Yale University, professor of law at the Yale Law School.

Her research focuses on the persistence of poverty and racial inequality in the 20th century.

And she has a new book out, an extraordinary book.

It's called America on Fire, the untold history of police violence and black rebellion

since the 1960s.

Professor Hinton, welcome to the program.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

There's a cycle, it seems.

You know, like a dog chasing its tail of increased policing, producing increased resistance

and rebellion, producing increased policing, going back and forth.

Can you explain how this works?

Yeah, it's a wash rinse repeat.

So there's a policy cycle where the response historically to various forms of violent political

protest that is seen as criminal, that is not seen as being linked to a larger set of demands

for socioeconomic inclusion and expanded access to jobs and education and decent housing.

It's labeled as criminal and therefore the only solution becomes the police and the police

themselves.

And when we look at the history of this violent protest, end up inciting the violence.

And so we've been stuck in this cycle of police violence and community responses to that

...