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All right, we are here with Peter Moscow's, who's of the John J. College of Criminal Justice

City University and your professor criminology author of many books and articles on policing

and crime and punishment, copping the hood, was that your first book, Peter?

That was my first book.

That was based on my PhD research when I was a grad student in sociology at Harvard.

I became a cop for under two years and in Baltimore City and then took another seven

years to write the book, but still that's all good, man.

You got your PhD at Harvard.

You ended up with a professor ship at John J and you also author of Indefensive Flogging

as I recall, which is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but not entirely whimsical reflection on

punishment as a theoretical sociological problem.

Yeah, it's kind of a prison abolition book actually, but the basic gambit is we don't

flog people anymore.

We don't whip people as punishment because we know what's cruel and inhumane and barbaric

and in America racist.

Yeah.

If you were given the choice, if you were found guilty of a crime and given the choice

between two years in prison and four lashes, which would you take?

It's not a hard call, man, even though those lashes are going to hurt like hell.

They're going to hurt like hell.

And so we don't use corporal punishment and instead we do something that is worse and

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