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This is Hard Talk with me, Stephen Sacker.

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Welcome to Hard Talk on the BBC World Service with me, Stephen Sacker.

My guest today is in that most exclusive of clubs, a Nobel Prize winner,

in this case for his groundbreaking work

on the economics of international trade. But many of us are more familiar with Paul Krugman's

words and ideas thanks to his 20-year stint as a star columnist on the New York Times. It is perhaps

a sign of the Times that his small L, liberal, economic and

political outlook has turned him into a hate figure for President Donald Trump and many American

conservatives, while he says he's simply defending the central importance of facts, evidence,

and expertise as drivers of public policy.

His latest book is a tirade against what he calls the zombie ideas which are undermining America.

But could it be that he has become addicted to the partisan warfare that he professes to despise.

Paul Krugman, welcome to Hard Talk.

Hi there.

You set out to be what you define yourself as a technocrat, a specialist economist,

and yet here you sit as one of the best known columnists,

airing your strong opinions on a weekly basis in the US media. What happened?

Well, partly, I got a new job. If you're writing for academic journals, a really hit

article gets read by maybe 4,000 people. It's a little bit different from writing when you start

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