Patrick Radden Keefe - ‘Lying Is More Prevalent Than People Think’

How To Fail With Elizabeth Day

Sony Music

Society & Culture

4.7 • 9.6K Ratings

🗓️ 17 June 2026

⏱️ 61 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

What draws an award-winning writer to the darkest corners of human behaviour? Patrick Radden-Keefe is a New York Times bestselling author and staff writer at The New Yorker. He is known for his acclaimed books, including Empire of Pain and Say Nothing - the latter was adapted into a BAFTA and Emmy-nominated drama series. Radden Keefe’s latest book, London Falling, investigates the life and untimely death of Zac Brettler, a North London teenager drawn into the criminal underworld. In this conversation, Patrick reflects on why he is so fascinated by “the bad guys”, how the extraordinary story behind London Falling unfolded and his unconventional writing process. Patrick also talks about the years of rejection that preceded his success and how it has shaped him. I hope you enjoy this conversation with one of the world’s finest narrative journalists (oh, and Patrick). JUST KIDDING. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 03:25 Why He Writes Bad Guys 05:12 London Falling Origin Story 08:01 Reinvention and Secret Lives 10:06 Holocaust Legacy and Lying 14:58 Carrying Grief and First Failure 31:47 Parents Read First Drafts 33:13 Family Themes And Fixations 34:22 Chasing The New Yorker Dream 36:49 Rejection Resentment And Drive 41:14 What To Leave Out 43:28 Research Outline 48:13 Screenplays That Never Get Made 50:51 Growth Outside Comfort Zone 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: I tend to look at people, even people who do pretty monstrous things, as human beings... The question for me is always, how did they get there? And usually they got there by degrees. I'd like to think that the sense of who you are as a person isn't contingent on the dopamine hit of people telling you you've done a good job. 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: London Falling is out now: www.patrickraddenkeefe.com Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com 📚 WANT MORE? Jon Ronson - another journalistic hero of mine, Jon talked about his love of storytelling, what being bullied at school taught him and why truth-telling is vital: swap.fm/l/3Uwm2GCNCBpHQVZc6dwr Malcolm Gladwell - on being mediocre at running, failing to be a friend and whether prejudice can ever be a force for good: swap.fm/l/CxIsEyNtJcyXROPZQCvh 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Elizabeth and Patrick answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email podcastadsales@sonymusic.com _________________________________________________________________________ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	The legal threats don't scare me.
0:01.9	I will say I get a lot of those.
0:03.2	The gangsters never threaten me in a kind of outright way.
0:08.4	The people who threaten me are people like the Sacklers,
0:10.5	are wealthy people who hire lawyers to send really nasty letters.
0:15.7	But at the end of the day, those are just nasty letters.
0:18.1	My dad was really disappointed and wouldn't speak to me. He didn't
0:24.3	talk to me for about four days. And he wrote me a letter. This episode of How to Fail is brought
0:30.7	to you by Dove Whole Body Deodorant. Hello and welcome to How to Fail. This is the podcast that
0:37.0	firmly believes failure is just simply
0:39.6	something we have to go through on our path to success. Before we get into this episode, please do
0:45.3	remember to like, follow and subscribe so that you never miss a single conversation.
0:52.8	This podcast is all about speaking the truth, honest, transparent storytelling and embracing our perceived failures to discover what we've learned from them.
1:04.1	Every week, I'm lucky enough to speak with some of the most impressive and inspiring people from around the world.
1:10.4	But while those conversations are
1:12.1	always a joy, they do sometimes take me out of my comfort zone. And when I'm feeling the
1:18.3	pressure, there's always the risk of getting a bit hot and bothered before my esteemed guest
1:22.7	arrives, which is why I'm so pleased to have Dove Whole Body helping me feel calm and confident.
1:30.4	Dove Whole Body Deodorant delivers all day odour protection and is designed to be used beyond
1:35.8	underarms on areas such as the chest, back, thighs and feet, helping you feel fresh from head to
1:42.2	toe. It even comes with added skincare, so it's suitable for my
1:46.6	sensitive skin. To help reach those trickier spots, Dove whole body deodorant comes in a spray,
	...

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