My MB Alex breakdown is supported by Helix sleep. Bring is in the air and so are all of the allergens that come with it. Spring allergens means you need more sleep, but there are a ton of factors that can prevent us from getting a good night's rest. Night sweats, back pain, feeling the person next to you when they roll over a million times. We were so excited to hear that Helix wanted to partner with us. I've had my Helix mattress for about five years now and I have been sleeping so much better. Jonathan and also our kids love their Helix mattresses and all of those issues, night sweats, back pain, motion transfer, those things are significantly better with a Helix mattress. Helix delivers your mattress right to your door, which is so much fun with free shipping in the US. They have a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty plus they're happy with Helix guarantee. Rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. The happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk-free customer first experience designed to ensure that you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. Go to helixleap.com slash break down for 27% off site wide. That's helixleap.com slash breakdown for 27% off site-wide. helixleap.com slash breakdown. Shhh. Hi, I'm Mayan Bialik. And I'm Jonathan Cohen. And welcome to part two of our conversation with the holistic psychologist, Dr. Nicole LaPera. We're talking about her new book Reparenting the Inner Child, The New Science of our Oldest Wounds and How to Heal Them. But what we actually talked about in part, one of our conversation with Dr. LaPara is how the different wounds we receive in childhood manifest in adulthood, in our relationships, in our work, in our lives. If we're not in touch with our intuition, it's likely because these wounds are acting

very, very strongly in our adult life. We also talk about what it's like to be the child of emotionally immature parents, why it's hard to do work on the inner child and what survival mode looks like. We hope you enjoy part two of our conversation with Dr. Nicole LaPara. to devote a healthy and deserving part of the book to shame. I would love to talk about shame. The acronym I've heard is should have already mastered everything, which is what I think of when I think of shame. And that's usually what it feels like. I wonder if you can talk a little bit. I mean, there's many kinds of responses we have to feeling shame. And I hadn't thought of people pleasing avoidance, isolation, projection, body consciousness, overcompensation, being controlling, having secrets, being defensive, self-harm. I hadn't thought of those as what if we view these as responses to shame? Can you talk a little bit about what shame is, how we feel shame, how we distinguish that from guilt and what it looks like when a child experiences shame? So in contrast to guilt, which is a feeling that we have about a behavior, right? We feel badly about something that we've done. Shame is a more pervasive identity-based feeling where we feel badly about who I am. And shame, right again, back to this idea that I was referencing earlier about we learn who we are and what we're worthy of in childhood. For more often than not, shame originates in childhood where we weren't seen as enough just for being who we are. Right. I think so many people fall into that category, right, where we were only seen to be enough conditionally when we were performing in some way or when we were good and quiet and not rocking the boat or when we were over

performing or caretaking like we talked about in terms of

Reparenting so we and our inherent worth right gets defined then more by action and shame

We can in my opinion at least we can even map it on to a nervous system state of

Disconnection of a shutting down right of where we're actually kind of disembodying ourselves, where we're disconnecting from our inherent worthiness, right, only living the certain parts that we're showing the world, right, hiding the things that we think would cause us to be rejected or abandoned again, just like in childhood. So for so many of us, right, the actions or inactions of our earliest caregivers again, because of the way our brain developmentally couldn't zoom out and defer responsibility, because none of it ever was ours, right? We assign that meaning. You didn't show up for me or you abused me, parent, whatever it is that you've done, because of something unworthy about me. In childhood, this is the most ultimate form of control.

Why?

I can't pack my bags and leave, but what I can do is notice those cues and children are very observant. They will notice what pulls a parent closer and maintains connection or what pushes the parent away. And then we become, right, shameful. If we don't have a parent that says, you know what? Maybe I don't like what you've done. So to be clear, we have to, of course, teach children boundaries and they have consequences

if they do things shame is very... a parent that says, you know what? Maybe I don't like what you've done. So to be clear, we have to of course,

teach children boundaries and they have consequences if they do things shame is very healthy because it preserves bonds, right? We can't get rid of shame, but we can try. Well it's identity, like hell fear. Right, we identify it. And I'm trying to think, you know, I once peaked on a spelling test. We used to have those desks where there was like a little shelf underneath and I was pretty

sure I knew how to spell.

I believe the word was disappointment which is I really not lost on me and I just I peaked and confirmed it right and I ended up confessing because I I felt guilt right I felt guilt but when I think about what is shame you know and she and Mrs and Mrs. Cass was a, she was a wonderful, wonderful teacher and, you know, there was nothing negative that came of that. But what I can imagine would lead to shame is what's the matter with you. And if anyone has ever had that screamed in their face by an adult, what's the matter with you, right? And that's shame, right? I'm bad. I'm the mistake, right? It feels like a personal flaw I'm reading the chart, you know, leads to hiding self-criticism or withdrawal. Oh, let's also factor in the school system too, right? This is even beyond parenting in our homes. I mean, I'm just taking even back to thankfully the school systems are somewhat changing and there's alternate schools you can go into to perhaps more individualize a child's needs, but when we grow up, that still mostly for elite people.

It wasn't the case, right? Right. You know, and so children, I can't tell you my partner being one of them, Lolli, since she has horrifying stories of she was told very young that she did some aptitude test and when she was very young, she was told that she was going to be a tugboat captain. I mean, she, this lives in her mind until today and she is the most brilliant.

I mean, stands right next to me, builds this business.

I mean, I look up to in her mind until today. And she is the most brilliant.

I mean, stands right next to me, builds this business.

I mean, I look up to her in so many ways.

And so these things are so hard.

Not that they're saying that. No, tugboat captains are great. All the tugboat captains out there. But I know it's not her body type. Just wouldn't be a tugboat captain. she's just not built for it.

The life on the sea is not hard.

But that aside, you know what I mean?

So it's like, it's sad.

...