Well, welcome to the Let It Be Easy Podcast, Dr. Michael Jervais. I'm so thrilled to have you here.

Oh, thank you. I love your enthusiasm. I'm excited to be here with you as well.

I've been enjoying your book the first rule of mastery stop worrying about what people think of you

now I you do you coined FOPO. Yeah, I did. Can you tell us what it stands for? So fear of other people's opinions?

Yes, fear of people's opinions, yes. Fear of people's opinions. And my first question is this, Michael, how do we know when we're living in it? Right? Because I think maybe we're in denial about this.

Sometimes I think, oh, I don't really care,

but I know I secretly care.

What are some signs we're living in fear

of other people's judgments and thoughts about us.

Yeah, well, first I think your question is really good, like how do we know and most of us are most of the time?

And we are hardwiredwired we are biologically hardwired to

attend to other people's opinions and as the narrative commonly is expressed you know about 200,000 years ago if we didn't fit in the tribe and we were

kicked out it was a near death sentence because if the two of us did something unfavorable to the rest of the tribe and we're pushed out,

it's just too hard to figure out life that way, right?

It's to fend, to forge, to hunt, to gather, to whatever.

It's just too much.

So being kicked out of the tribe was a near death sentence,

but that hard wiring hasn't changed over 200,000 years.

And so we're walking around in modern times

with very different challenges.

And one of the remnants from our early brain development

is that make sure that people are not judging or critiquing you

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