Welcome to the Black Girl Burnout Podcast, Kelly here.

And this is our last segment with Les Alfred.

We've had a great conversation with her this week.

And it has been an incredible connection.

Let's listen to How Les centers joy in her personal life as we close out this week's interview.

For a long time, I've been a writer to running hide us. I think you are just wonderful. And our last kind of segment is all about how less lives are like, right?

Non-working hours. I feel like black women always, I say this all the time, I think as black

women, we're going to get a job and we don't work and we're going to

excel and we're going to be CEOs. And fortunately, like we're going to be all the things that

you could possibly be. But I feel like the last undiscovered area for, I think, women, but particularly

black women, is the journey to yourself. I think that's the last undiscovered. And unfortunately,

when you get older is when you do

it, instead of younger. So I want to know for you, how do you center joy in your non-work hours? What does

that look like for you? Yeah, this has been kind of a newer, a newer thing for me, because for a really

long time, I was still working corporate and then

podcasting and in the earlier stages of that as I was building it was a lot more time consuming than it

is now. And so over the past year or two, I've had a little bit more space, a little bit more

breathing room. And I've really been focusing on hobbies

and on my friendships. And those two areas have just been so healing and nurturing and just so

helpful for me. And I actually had a podcast episode recently about why black women in particular need hobbies and why

hobbies are important for our health because it's so so true and it's something that I didn't even

have until maybe last year and I'm still learning how to embrace. Yeah, I did a I've done a lot on

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