was there any way Julian Smith was going to survive that cabinet reshuffle?

No.

Probably not.

Do you think he knew that?

I think he did.

I think he knew it from the morning of the reshuffle before it started and he was one of the first

in.

I think he kind of said his goodbyes before he went in.

Yeah, I think it had been on the cards for a few days.

I was talking to a source the night before who'd said it wasn't a done deal, but it didn't look good.

And then we found out that morning that anybody that was either staying in post or getting a promotion was going to number 10.

And people who were getting the sack were going to the Prime Minister's Commons office.

And that is indeed where Julian Smith went and we know now that he only lasted 204 days in the job, one of the shortest

ten years for a secretary of state. It has to be said.

The shortest to Francis Pymn. What's interesting? What did Julian Smith and Francis Pim have in

common? Go on. They both restored the institutions at Stormont, is that not right?

That's what you get for that kind of thing.

It's a career ending move.

I didn't bring it up because I knew if I did, he would ask me like.

That's what you get for that kind of thing.

I'm probably the only person around this table old enough to vaguely remember Francis.

I remember Francis Pynne.

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