You see all this stuff in the culture about how you've got to learn to say no.

And I quote Elizabeth Gilbert in the book, making the point that like,

we just instinctively assume that what that means is saying no to all the stuff we don't want to do

so that there's enough time for everything that matters.

And she says, no, no, it's much harder than that.

You've got to say no to lots of things that do matter that you do want to do.

Hello and welcome to the psychology podcast.

In this episode, I talked to bestselling author Oliver Brickman about his latest book,

Four Thousand Weeks. On the surface, it's easy to mistake this book for another self-help book

on time management. But this book is very different. Instead of infusing about productivity hacks

and making sure that we're super humans, Oliver challenges his readers to confront the

finite nature of humanity. By doing so, he argues, we can live four lives without having to

always carry the fear of missing out. We also touch on the topics of procrastination,

positive psychology, flow, realism, deep time, and patience. This was a really, really stimulating

episode and I hope it helps you in this new year live a very good life. So now without further ado,

I give you Oliver Brickman. I'm definitely a fan of yours now.

That's very kind of you to say.

What a great book. So how's your own time management coming along this year so far?

It's been a challenge, right? Because you write this book about things you've learned about

time and how to use it. And then it's kind of done better than I expected. And so now,

I've got more emails to answer and more potential opportunities to pursue. And all the issues I thought

I'd got that handled, you know, a sort of kick into a different degree.

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