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The Remnant with Jonah Goldberg

Old and New Rights | Interview: George Hawley

The Remnant with Jonah Goldberg

The Dispatch

News, Politics

4.76.6K Ratings

🗓️ 11 May 2026

⏱️ 73 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Jonah Goldberg, weary of the grind, needs some R&R. Not being much of a beach man and finding ping pong boring, he turns to the one activity which puts the pep back in his step and color in his cheeks: day drinking. Wait … checks notes … rather, Jonah turns to his other favorite recreation: talking about conservatism. Today Jonah’s partner in crime is political scientist and notorious conservatism nerd George Hawley. Join this dynamic duo as they dive into the meaning of “right” and “left,” the many new rights, populist tension, the cult of unity, the progressive era, socialism, identity politics on the right, ethnic politics, antisemitism, Russell Kirk, the horseshoe theory, me-too Republicans, and conservatism as ideology and its origins. Show Notes:—George Hawley in The Dispatch: “The Enduring Lessons of Fusionism”—Right-Wing Critics of American Conservatism—Samuel Huntington: “Conservatism as an Ideology”—David Schoenbaum: Hitler's Social Revolution: Class and Status in Nazi Germany, 1933-1939—Jonah’s first book: Liberal Fascism—Hawley: Conservatism in a Divided America: The Right and Identity Politics—Charlie Cooke Remnant—George Nash: The Conservative Intellectual Movement in America Since 1945—Matthew Continetti: The Right: The Hundred-Year War for American Conservatism The Remnant is a production of ⁠The Dispatch⁠, a digital media company covering politics, policy, and culture from a nonpartisan perspective. To access all of The Dispatch’s offerings—including audio versions of all our articles and newsletters and Jonah’s twice-weekly G-File—⁠click here⁠. If you’d like to remove all ads from your podcast experience, consider becoming a premium Dispatch member ⁠by clicking here⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention.

0:18.0

Can you digger?

0:27.5

Greetings, dear listeners, this is Jonah Goldberg, host of the Remnant podcast, brought you by the Dispatch

0:31.9

and Dispatch Media.

0:34.1

Very excited about today's guest.

0:36.4

He wrote a really sort of lovely piece for us at the dispatch as part of the next

0:42.8

250 series on the enduring lessons of fusionism.

0:46.8

And just full disclosure, this more than a lot of podcasts, even for me, is probably

0:53.2

going to get in the weeds on conservative stuff.

0:55.7

For people who like the weeds on conservative stuff, I predict you will enjoy it.

1:00.3

And for those who don't, try to stick around and maybe you'll acquire the taste.

1:05.1

But I have with me, George Hawley, he's an associate professor of political science at the

1:09.7

University of Alabama. He's the author of of political science at the University of Alabama.

1:11.5

He's the author of many books, a bunch of which I just bought this week when I realized them.

1:16.7

He's the author of many books, including conservatism and a divided America, the right and identity

1:22.6

politics, and the more moderate majority, as well as a particular interest to me,

1:30.0

right-wing critics of American conservatism.

1:32.9

So, George, welcome to The Remnant.

1:34.4

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

1:36.3

Yeah, I have a lot of guests on here who don't really know the full residence of the term

1:42.8

the remnant, but I assume you're a little more familiar with it than

1:45.6

others. But why don't we sort of start with what you wrote about for us on fusionism?

...

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