Hi, this is Jane and welcome to a Friday bonus edition of Offair with Jane and Fee.

Now, we thought we would invite one of the most powerful feature writers on The Times to join us for a Friday special. It's Helen

Rumbullo, who often, and you'll find out why, finds herself writing about pornography. And in the

last couple of weeks, she's written some incredible pieces about the links between Epstein,

Giselle Pelico's ordeal

and the pornography industry.

And sometimes it makes for pretty difficult reading,

but she makes some very, very powerful points.

So we thought we'd bring her in for a longer conversation.

And here is Helen Rumbullo telling me

how she first started writing about the porn industry.

Well, actually, it goes back to 1999, which is really long time ago now,

and a kind of, yeah, centuries in terms of porn.

But I happen to be a young female reporter on this paper covering a case, which was, again,

this sounds so antiquated now, but it was about a video, a porn video, and it was the British

government basically wanting to prevent hardcore being shown in Britain, which now again

incredibly antiquated this idea of videos and also the

idea of hardcore, meaning what it did then, which was literally just showing sex on screen.

And I actually had this conversation because I've been doing porn more recently now for the paper,

but I had this conversation with a young man in the office.

He was like, what?

You couldn't, it was illegal to see sex on screen. And I was like, yep. But yeah,

...