I love that more people get to create for a living than they ever have before.

But I also am very deeply ambivalent about the kinds of creations that do well.

Some of them are, I think, really positive and wonderful forms of art and connection

and education.

And I think some of them are really down deep in the sort of human psyche stuff that makes

us more sad, more isolated, and more angry.

Hello, welcome to Wise This Happening with me, your host, Chris Hayes.

I think I talk about this fair amount on the show, but I'm 42 years old.

And that's the age that is the first kind of internet native age, I think.

Chris is right in my cohort, started getting the internet, like 13 or 14.

Really the first sort of band of people in a mass sense that were on the internet.

And came up with it as part of their life in their adolescence.

Not, of course, in the way of younger folks and smartphones, and it was not as ubiquitous.

But it was hitting kind of a mass appeal at the age that I was sort of growing into it.

And it was incredibly formative in my life and in my career.

My early years were as a freelance writer in Chicago.

And one of the things that was truly transformative for me is that I was living with Kate in Chicago.

She was working at domestic violence, advocacy organization, and then she was in law school.

And I was publishing stuff, but connected to other centers of politics and media outside

the city of Chicago via the internet via blogs, via email listservs.

And that connectedness really did a lot for my career.

I was able to sort of get in touch with people and pitch people and publish for publications

...