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Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

North of the Border: A Canadian Perspective on the Free Trade Era (with Luke Savage)

Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

Civic Ventures

Business, Government, News, Politics

4.8 • 1.5K Ratings

šŸ—“ļø 14 October 2025

ā±ļø 31 minutes

šŸ§¾ļø Download transcript

Summary

In the fifth episode of our series on trade, journalist and author Luke Savage joins Pitchfork Economics Producer Freddy Doss to unpack how decades of ā€œfree tradeā€ between the U.S. and Canada have reshaped both economies—entrenching corporate power, hollowing out manufacturing, and weakening democratic control over economic policy. Savage traces how policies sold as mutually beneficial instead fueled inequality and deindustrialization—eroding the livelihoods of working people. He argues for a new kind of trade built to serve the interests of workers and communities, not multinational corporations.Ā  Luke Savage is a Canadian journalist, author, and political commentator whose work examines the failures of liberalism and the possibilities of democracy. A staff writer at Jacobin and co-host of the podcast Michael and Us, Savage has written for The Atlantic, The Guardian, The Washington Post, and The New Statesman. He is the author of The Dead Center: Reflections on Liberalism and Democracy After the End of History and co-author of Seeking Social Democracy with the late Ed Broadbent.Ā  Social Media: @lukewsavage.bsky.social @LukewSavage Lukewsavage Further reading:Ā  Luke Savage | Substack The Dead Center: Reflections on Liberalism and Democracy After the End of History Seeking Social Democracy: Seven Decades in the Fight for Equality Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics Threads: pitchforkeconomics Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social TikTok: @pitchfork_econ Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer, @civicaction YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

Transcript

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0:00.0

The rising inequality and growing political instability that we see today are the direct result of decades of bad economic theory.

0:10.9

The last five decades of trickle-down economics haven't worked.

0:14.7

But what's the alternative?

0:16.3

Middle-out economics is the answer.

0:18.6

Because the middle class is the source of growth, not its consequence.

0:23.1

That's right.

0:28.7

This is pitchfork economics with Nick Hanauer, a podcast about how to build the economy from the middle out.

0:36.9

Welcome to the show.

0:41.9

Hey, pitchfork listeners, Goldie here. We've talked a lot on the pod about free trade and how

0:48.5

it's shaped the American economy, but what about our neighbors to the north? You know what

0:53.9

President Trump calls our 51st

0:55.9

state. In this episode, producer Freddie Das digs into the question with journalist Luke Savage,

1:02.8

who explains how NAFTA and its successors have locked Canada into a trade model that serves

1:09.8

corporations first and workers last.

1:14.2

Here's Freddie's conversation with Luke.

1:21.4

I'm Luke Savage. I'm a Toronto-based writer, columnist at Jacobin Magazine, and I blog on

1:27.4

Substack at Luke W. Savage.

1:29.8

Well, let's start with the big picture. What was the U.S.-Canada trade relationship like

1:35.4

before NAFTA, and how did it change afterward? So in Canada, there is a deep history of the

1:42.3

Canada-U.S. trade relationship really shaping the Canadian identity and being a

1:47.7

significant issue, very controversial issue in Canadian politics going right back to the 19th century.

1:54.5

So when Canada is created in 1867, Johnny McDonald, who's the country's first prime minister, he was very determined to

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