This is the New World Report. I'm John Bachel with Ernesto Aura-Ujaro, former

former minister of the Republic of Brazil and Joseph Umar, the executive director of

the Center for Security Society. Joseph, I understand the rumor of the

report, the possibility, is that Nicholas Maduro, president, well, a former

president of Venezuela, I'll be careful here because the U.S. denies he is a

legitimate president, but Nicholas Maduro, the strongman of Venezuela, is doing

sea lack. Is this significant, Joseph? Does this change the calculus about sea

lack in some fashion? Well, it does, but it not necessarily knew in the sense

that the last meeting that they had in Mexico City in September of last year,

that was the big, the big moment in terms of Nicholas Maduro because he was

president at the meeting in Mexico City, and he got into a lot of disagreements

with his counterparts in Uruguay, in Baraguaay, and other parts of the region in

Latin American Ecuador that are more democratic nations. Obviously Venezuela is

not a democracy, and so they challenged the fact that he was there. They said

that why are we bringing individuals that are considered authoritarians and

don't have conditions that have free and fair elections or free speech or

anything that resembles a democracy? Why are they bringing them into a

community of nations that's meant to promote democracy and that caused a bit of

a rift? Who is not president in Mexico City, but that will be president in

Buenos Aires, is Colombia and Brazil. Back in September of 2022, it was

President Bolsonaro and Brazil, and then actually I think President Duque had

I mean President Petro had not been inaugurated yet, so he was inaugurated

...