This summer, the chaotic fall of Afghanistan to the Taliban left Irish citizens stranded and exposed the state's lack of an aircraft large enough to conduct an evacuation. It highlighted the issue of Ireland's tiny and under-funded defence forces, which mean we rely on outside forces like Britain and the European Union for day-to-day security in areas like air and maritime patrols and cyber security. From this weak position, Ireland has increasingly been drawn over the last two decades into participating in international defence arrangements that arguably blur the lines of our neutral status. Naomi and Tim lay out what's at stake in an increasingly unstable global order and as the EU debates a shift in defence policy in response. Guest Tom Clonan shares his experience as a soldier and lays out the profound risks to Irish interests posed by gaping holes in national defence. Conor Gallagher of the Irish Times tells us the backstory of how Irish officials worked behind the scenes and leaned on old relationships with allies this summer to get Irish citizens out of Kabul. This is part two of a two-part episode on Irish neutrality. In part one, we explained how the policy was born in the 20th century, at a time when the leadership feared that involvement in the Second World War could crush the fragile new Irish state. You can listen to the episode here: https://www.theirishpassport.com/podcast/neutrality-part-1-escaping-dominion/ Follow us on Facebook and Twitter at @PassportIrish. We'll post the full version of our interview with Tom Clonan for our supporters over at www.patreon.com/theirishpassport Huge thanks to our sponsors, Irish at Heart, for backing this episode. Sign up to receive surprise boxes of artisan Irish goods at irish-at-heart.com, and get a special 15% discount off your first box with the discount code IRISHPASSPORT. The link is here: https://irish-at-heart.com/