Net Zero has become a religion: Claire Coutinho on climate, identity and cooking
Political Thinking with Nick Robinson
BBC
4.6 • 2.5K Ratings
🗓️ 17 October 2025
⏱️ 43 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
The Shadow Energy Minister has transformed her party's approach to climate policy.
In this extended conversation, Claire Coutinho sets out what changed her mind on net zero, a shift that has brought her into fierce debates with her opposite number, Ed Miliband.
She also shares her feelings about what she calls a rising "ethno-nationalism" on the right of British politics, as well as her reaction to her colleague Robert Jenrick's comments about Birmingham.
Nick asks how she ended up being sacked by Nigella Lawson, and sets up a future dinner party with Miliband.
Producer: Daniel Kraemer Research: Chloe Desave Sound: Jed Sudlow and Andy Mills Editor: Jonathan Brunert
Transcript
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| 0:21.7 | with new podcast episodes throughout the week. America's. Listen on BBC Sound. Hello and welcome |
| 0:28.8 | to political thinking. Net Zero has become a religion. And for too long, we were an unthinking part |
| 0:35.5 | of the congregation. So says my guest this week, |
| 0:38.6 | Claire Ketino, who, until last year, wasn't just part of the congregation. She was the Secretary |
| 0:44.7 | of State for Energy and, yes, net zero, implementing conservative targets for the adoption |
| 0:51.5 | of electric cars, the use of more wind and solar power. Now doing the same |
| 0:55.8 | job in opposition, she says the policy is a job killer, which is holding Britain's economy back |
| 1:01.6 | and raising prices for consumers. Ketino, like her old boss, Rishi Sunak, is a self-confessed super |
| 1:08.6 | nerd. She calls herself a lifelong mathlet who says the numbers |
| 1:12.5 | simply don't add up. Like him, she was tipped to be Chancellor soon after she entered the Commons |
| 1:17.7 | and like him, she's the child of Indian immigrants. Her other job is shadow equality's minister |
| 1:23.2 | at a time when her party, like so many people, is wrestling with controversies about mass migration and integration. |
| 1:30.9 | Claire Katina, welcome to political thinking. |
| 1:33.1 | Thank you for having me. |
| 1:34.0 | Now, on this subject of Net Zero, you're sounding very different from how you used to sound when you actually have the job in government. How so? |
| 1:41.9 | Well, look, I was the first person who came in to do that job, who was questioning things. So at the very beginning, if you remember, we did a net zero reset. We talked about cost to consumers. And we talked about costs to businesses. But you're right. You know, it has been a journey. I thought this was a good thing. And we need to be careful about how we were doing it. |
| 2:01.9 | But the more I got under the bonnet, the more I realised actually, actually what we're doing |
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