Hello, I'm Dr. Stephen Hassan with another episode of my podcast,

cults, culture, and coercion.

And I have with me a very special guest, someone that I've met and worked with and talked with online.

Erica Siegel is a licensed social worker, California-based, clinical social worker, I want to add,

is the founder of Nest Harm Reduction, an organization focused on psychotherapy, psychedelic-adjacent care, drug education,

and consultation for communities and organizations working in high-influence environments.

Erica spent over 15 years working across various areas of the emerging psychedelic industry, including clinical research,

behavioral health, community gathering, spiritual care settings, and helping individuals and

organizations reduce harm while preserving autonomy and dignity.

Organizational work centers on container design, consent practices, power dynamics,

boundary clarity, and the way, I love this intro, and the ways authority can quietly

shape behavior, especially in spaces involving vulnerability, altered states, and promises of healing.

And let me just say the issue of psychedelics and therapists using psychedelics, not to mention

ayahuasca and shamanism and all of those things.

There are things that are called psychedelics that aren't like ketamine.

We're going to talk about all of these things,

but Erica and I have talked about our concerns about abuses of power,

undue influence of people, unethically influencing people.

Erica's taken my course. Thank you, Erica, for clinicians. And we met at a Harvard

psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy course that I was one of the speakers for.

We went out to dinner, and I'm an admirer of you and your work.

And there's so many people doing psychedelics now,

...